World Introvert Day Jan 2nd 2024 👆🏼

International Women’s Day – Introvert Inspiration

Sami Gardner

Sami is a career stagnation stopper who works with both employees and entrepreneurs to unlock their next move.




Janice: [00:00:04] And today I am talking to Sami Gardner. Now we are doing this because of International Women’s Day. And this is special specifically for introverts we are going to call it introvert inspiration for International Women’s Day Hi Sami


Sami: [00:00:18] How are you doing Janice?


Janice: [00:00:20] Can you take a minute to introduce yourself and tell everyone who you are what you do?


Sami: [00:00:27] I can. Well hey I am Sami Gardner and I consider myself a career stagnation stopper. I’m also a former librarian and I’m currently a digital nomad world traveler type. I am a freelance career coach and I help artistic techie and globally conscience types to craft their career end businesses on their own terms.


Janice: [00:00:52] Wow you got a lot going on.


Sami: [00:00:55] I practice that


Janice: [00:01:00] The first question I’m going to ask everyone in this little series of interviews is what are you doing for International Women’s Day?


Sami: [00:01:07] Of what I’m doing for International Women’s Day is actually going to be meeting up with a private sort of mastermind group that I have to just you know Baller business women that I get accountability and support with. So I’m going to fill my day with women getting shit done.


Janice: [00:01:29] Oh wow. I love the sound of that bad ass baller women I want to put on the wall somewhere. Because this is aimed at introverts. I guess my question would be to you. Why do you consider yourself to be an introvert. And what does introversion mean to you?


Sami: [00:01:56] yes I do consider myself a introvert. I discovered that while I can be very vagarious I’m a social sprinter you know and I can be really outgoing for a couple hours and then I’m like I need to go home. Like I’m a person the first time that I went to a six day conference by day six. I was just like WHY DID THEY DO THIS TO US? Why am I am still in Chicago? Why do I still have to talk to people? I wanted to barricade myself alone. I don’t get energy from people which is really ironic since all the work that I’ve really enjoyed doing my career has been people centric.


Janice: [00:02:45] Ah yes. And I say I have similarities with that cause most of my work has been in HR and interviewing people like I’m doing now. Job. I used to have to do it back to back to back to back and that was exhausted and I didn’t realize why. So with being an introvert and now during your having your own business how do you. Make sure that you have balance and time to yourself and time to work and time to go out and all the things that you do.


Sami: [00:03:15] You know that took me a long time to figure out what actually led me to be becoming a digital nomad was the fact that I completely failed at doing anything to conserve like what I call my people energy the social energy that I have my emotional energy when I was working for a nonprofit as an employment specialist. And this was at a AIDS foundation that had kind of grown it’s mission to include if you were homeless LGBT folks. And I was embedded to a homeless drop in program as an employment specialist. I can be for someone to like me as dry sarcastic have terrible dark humor. I’m actually quite empathetic so you know working in that environment I made myself very available to my participants, to my clients, to my co-workers, to collaborative partners and that led to me burning out


Sami: [00:04:22] And what I discovered during that time is that I’m able to develop skills routines and be able to recognize where my energy is flagging. So I started journaling in the morning. I tried to you know do some stuff for my overall health. It be mindful, listening to my body. Do I feel tired? Do I feel overwhelmed? Do I just not want to be social or with people or whatever I need right. I had to modify that once I became a digital nomad. Once you get on out there. I am also a Leo and the double Leo like with a moon in Capricorn. So nothing about my personality means any sense. It’s all contrast like that would be like yeah I want to be at the party to I want to be home and I dodn’t want to be wearing a bra and I wan’t there to be netflix on. And that’s been the challenge in my life. So when I became a nomad I was so excited I ended up going to 4 different continents in like 5 months and I had to come back to my hometown to see my folks. So you just get some stuff in order and I was there were extended leave and once I got home it was like I was like in high school again. I was on the couch napping for what seemed like a week. Not really talking to people. My mom was like what happened I was like I was so tired. I was very extroverted for about four months as a traveler. I had to learn to listen to myself and put my own boundaries


Sami: [00:06:09] in 2008 with my travel I’ve been a lot more intentional about the slowness of my travel giving myself containers of time where it’s ok for me to be doing this for next to take care of the emotional. Well once you start being self-employed it becomes a little bit easier for you to carve out those pockets of time which I did I just didn’t have when I was working as a social worker.


Janice: [00:06:37] Wow.


Sami: [00:06:40] I ramble my everybody my life story in my zodiac sign. For someone who has a podcast I am not that good at being interviewed. I’m really good at asking the questions.


Janice: [00:06:52] I’m the same because people have a habit of asking two or three questions in a row of them wanting you to give an answer by the time you’ve kind of got through the first one you like. What was the question. So the one thing you mentioned is that you are a digital nomad. Can you tell me where you are currently?


Sami: [00:07:08] I’m sorry Medellin Colombia. Colombia is a beautiful country. I have been hearing so much about this city and I just had to go like it straight 75 like every day there’s always sunshine this I’m sure the plants are really cool the people are nice. So I’m just really enjoying being in Medellin. It is also a place really you know like you can have a night in and I just last night I stayed and watched feud which is the Bette Davis Joan Crawford miniseries they have which for some people that might be like but you are exploring the world, why are you not outside I do that all the time to avoid being like crazy and just no fun for everyone. There are times when you need to be a hermit at least I do as an introvert.


Janice: [00:08:03] And so you mentioned the fact that you found one of the biggest issues that you realized was that you didn’t have enough alone time or time to recharge when you were working as a social worker. Do you. Can you remember. You currently have anything. You also think you are an issue because you are an introvert.


Sami: [00:08:21] Yes, for a long time because keep in mind all this stuff for introvert “pride” or whatever has only been the last couple years. So for most of my life I have like really kind of given myself you know like a lot like self-criticism over the fact that I need this alone time that I recharge in different ways because I come from a family of extroverts. You know I wasn’t raised where people were introverts. So I always thought I was a little defective you know so for most of my life I’ve been fighting against this natural part of my personality. You know I have been fighting against it. And that has really been one of the biggest difficulties for myself is that I give myself some of introvert FOMO. Well you know it’s like sometimes you go out and you are are like oh this is what going out is like I want to be back in.


Janice: [00:09:30] It’s like OK I’m going to do this I’m going to get out I’m getting Oh I remember why don’t I do this. Oh yeah.


Sami: [00:09:37] And you are Like oh my god it was so fun doing my makeup inside my house. Why did I leave?


Janice: [00:09:46] And so one last question asked one question of what kind of statement I’d like to make. Can you tell me what motivates you?


Sami: [00:09:55] That’s a deep question Janice.


Janice: [00:10:00] Not for me I would say chocolate and ice cream.


Sami: [00:10:02] Oh well I mean that’s very motivating. I’m a little bit like the golden retriever where I can be very motivated by food. But I think for me at this stage of my life what’s really motivating me is the fact that I. Want to be able to really feel like I gave it a go. I spent the first ten years of my adulthood in one city, not even a big city, Tucson , Arazona. So I spent all that time there. And what is motivating me now is just to figure out exactly what I want how I want to work you know because you might think oh you’re a career specialist. You should have your career figured out like I don’t know. I could still run off and become an astronaut tomorrow. So I’m just exploring enjoying the world and just try to do these new and different things. I might have had a midlife crisis a little bit early. Once they started up with 30 coming up the tail end of my 20s like oh God I need to do something big. It’s been very successful so far.


Janice: [00:11:20] That explains a lot. I learnt stuff today.


Sami: [00:11:26] Your welcome Janice.


Janice: [00:11:30] So the last thing I’m going to say is what message would you leave for any introvert who maybe wants to change career get a promotion or just do something different and is feeling that I can’t do it because of their intervention.


Sami: [00:11:46] You know the thing about leaving your apartment is that once you step outside it’s easier. You know we amp ourselves up for these different changes. You know whether it’s in careers or in our lives we do research we were looking at consumer reports we’re asking people you know because a lot of introverts you know they want to do their research. This thing is once you start doing the thing everything becomes easier once you start working on being intentional with your life and how you’re designing that that really gives you so much more freedom and when you start stepping outside of your comfort zone your comfort zone gets bigger. So I would tell you to just do it even with the nomading. I just thought like everybody is going to miss me. How will Tucson go on. Tucson did just fine once my ginger butt left you know people miss me I had a good going away party. Really well actually whether it’s leaving your job or you know finding a partner or whatever it is like it’s the biggest deal to you. And for most other people they’re just politely happy for you just go for it. If you look at elections politics. Yes that’s the first try. Right now things are random. Anything can happen. So really just go for it. Just go for your dreams. The zombie apocalypse could be around the corner.


Janice: [00:13:32] Thank you so much.


Sami: [00:13:35] You’re welcome.


Janice: [00:13:36] A pleasure talking to these 15 to 20 minutes. And can you let everyone know where they can find you.


Sami: [00:13:44] Awesome. Well right now I have to different businesses. I am the founder of the That is where I do my 1:1 career coaching. I have courses, templates, that sort of thing and I let people know right away. I’m not your grandmas career coach. So if you’re ready to find a job in 2018 i am you girl. And then have my other business is for entrepreneurs and small businesses where I help them with their LinkedIn Strategy since I’ve been doing a career coaching for so many years. I know LinkedIn inside and out and now I’ve been helping entrepreneurs figure out how to market on LinkedIn set up their profiles solve their problems and get results in what is like the biggest business social media network. So that is what I’m working on right now. But what I’m most proud of of course all the time is the science fiction fantasy novel you know that I’ve been plugging away which is available nowhere and I can’t even tell you if it is even going to come out. But if you want to know what I do on weekends it’s type away on that. So that’s where people can find me. And that’s a little bit more about my interests I know with introverts before we actually reach out to somebody we want to know a little bit about them it’s like Who are you. We don’t have to do small talk figuring out who we are. There you go. That’s me.


Janice: [00:15:30] All right awesome thank you so much for your introvert inspirations and have a great International Women’s Day.

Jac Julien

It was great to talk with Jac who helps people win they’re mind games so that they can get unstuck move out of the fear move out of the procrastination and, be the champion of their success.




Janice: [00:00:01] Hello once again. It is Janice the career introvert and I’m here with Jacqueline and she is going to tell us a little bit about what she does and where she is.


Jacqueline: [00:00:10] Hello I’m Jacqueline Julien. My friends call me Jac and I am in the United States in Texas. But I have to say I’m originally from Minnesota so I’m. Don’t claim Texas as my home state unfortunately or fortunately I guess I don’t know. And I help people win they’re mindgames so that they can get unstuck move out of the fear move out of the procrastination and, be the champion of their success.


Janice: [00:00:52] I like that, champion of their success because I think people think they’re lucky or stuff just happens. But you do have some control over certain things. Yes. You’re right. So the first question that I ask everybody is what are you doing for International Women’s Day?


Jacqueline: [00:01:07] Well that’s a really good question. You know I, focus a lot on positivity. So I think I will be striving to share a lot about how, you know there’s good things about being feminine. Or being a woman. And so how we can use those and be really positive about being a woman and being who we are.


Janice: [00:01:40] All right. That is a different answer because we’ve had. One country that we like we give coupons. So I’m going shopping we have had reading books and feminist books and or just books written by women. I’m taking the day off.


Jacqueline: [00:01:55] Nice. I like it.


Janice: [00:01:58] Nice for me. Oh those when she’s like oh I have my weekly meeting with bad ass women so we’re just going to be bad ass. Oh ok then. You do that.


Jacqueline: [00:02:10] That is a great idea.


Janice: [00:02:13] Talking with women around the world to see what people are doing.


Jacqueline: [00:02:15] I might steal the meeting idea.


Janice: [00:02:22] As far as y’all what you do with your mindset and the work that you do how do you balance. Your work. Or your family or everything that you have along with your introversion


Jacqueline: [00:02:35] Well I think there’s a lot of moving parts and I think. Some of it is a little bit different depending upon you know which area we’re focusing on. But there’s always that time when I need to recharge and have some downtime. So. You know like with my business. I do small group and one on one things because I don’t want to be in a big group I don’t you know want to. Be responsible for entertaining you know large groups of people. And it took me a long time to come to that. That’s OK. You know that I don’t have to you know I don’t have to be like some huge motivational speaker traveling around talking to millions of people a day. Right. That’s probably great for other people. But not for me. And. As far as like being a parent I never realized how much my introversion would affect my parenting. But I know that, I need to take downtime, before I pick up my kids. Because I work from home. And so I’m nice and alone all day and you know maybe one or two interactions and then I’m going to pick up my two kids and they’re going to be all oh we are out of school. So I make sure that I set my timer on my phone. To. Take some downtime before I pick up my kids.


Janice: [00:04:10] That’s huge. I know bet that has been a game changer for you. It’s just hard to find time but you’ve actually figured out that that’s when you need the downtime didn’t necessarily need to. After the kids go to bed you need to recharge beforehand to then be okay.


Jacqueline: [00:04:25] I do need some downtime after they’ve gone to bed. But because I to because I prepare myself I think it’s really helped and I don’t need as much.


Janice: [00:04:35] Awesome. All right. And so with your business and what you’re doing maybe what you’ve done in the past in a different career what maybe the biggest misconceptions obstacles that you might have faced. and what did you do about and what happened afterwards?


Jacqueline: [00:04:59] Nothing comes to mind right off the top of my head. You know I think just in general right like being around people all day long. You know that can get tiring. So making sure that I find like little ways during the day to recharge. You know. Not going out to lunch with the group every day finding somewhere nice and quiet to eat lunch. Once I really started to look more at you know what introversion is that accepting myself. I’m an introvert you know. And I will freely say to people you know I can’t do this. Yeah. Because I need to take care of me and. I need some downtime.


Janice: [00:06:02] so for me when you was saying about the time that you need and you know you’re OK to say that you’re an introvert. Did you figure out early on in life that you’re an introvert or it took a while?


Jacqueline: [00:06:13] That’s so funny because someone asked me that the other day when did you realize you were an introvert. And I don’t really know but I always knew that something was different. Like I can remember in high school that all my friends would want to go out like all weekend and you know I go out like Friday and I’m done. Though I didn’t know that it was introversion then and I didn’t know what to do about it. But I think when I got into college and started learning and I’m actually a psychologist as well. So you know when we started learning about you know the different types and the introversion and that really struck home and then you know reading more about what really does it mean that so many people think that it means you’re shy and you just don’t want to talk to people. Right?


Janice: [00:07:03] Yes.


Jacqueline: [00:07:05] That’s not what people don’t know that I’m an introvert. When they first meet the. So. It’s balancing that with what you’re saying friendly and going. OK well that’s fine. I’m not shy but I’m still an introvert.


Janice: [00:07:22] Yes. Oh that misconception. Yeah. So what what motivates you won’t get you out of bed in the morning. Well it’s spring in your step.


Jacqueline: [00:07:34] My alarm clock


Janice: [00:07:36] I try I try to have less of that snooze button.


Jacqueline: [00:07:43] You know what really motivates me is. Helping. People live authentically. I feel like I grew up in a time when it was you should do this and you should do that and you should. And I think a lot of us get that message. But what we should what we’re told we should do. Now I’m not saying you know don’t follow laws or anything like that. Don’t be that authentic. You know we’re told so many things that we should do you know go out to parties all weekend when you’re in high school and you know living authentically is what really motivates me because that has really helped me you know not just with my introversion but you know with other quirks that I have. And so that that’s what gets me out of bed in the morning. So


Janice: [00:08:38] As we head to inspire introverts and everyone’s story has been different which has been great. And if one’s in a different place which is also been great what’s the one thing that you would tell people who are listening and or watching. About. If they’re thinking about making a career change or getting a promotion and how much work it might be or the fact they have to go to network or going to a conference or just making a change in their life. What would be the one thing that you’d want everyone to know.


Jacqueline: [00:09:06] I think the one thing I would want everybody to know is to really get to know your self and your boundaries. And how far you can push yourself. Right. Can you go to 5 networking events in one week as an introvert. Probably not. So you know but maybe maybe you can maybe you can do five networking events in one week and then take the other three weeks off. Right. Maybe that works for you.


Janice: [00:09:34] That’s your networking right.


Jacqueline: [00:09:36] Right. Get it over and done with. So maybe that works for you. But know what your, limitations are or I mean what’s a limitation. Because I don’t. Necessarily think of it that way but know your limits.


Janice: [00:09:52] And what works for you


Jacqueline: [00:09:53] And what works for you.


Janice: [00:09:56] And I think what people don’t realize is you don’t know straightaway is a hit and miss thing it is a learning process. You don’t suddenly wake up be like oh yes I figured out the meaning of. It’s a process that so many people want things here and now. I want the blue pill or the red pill if you want to do the Matrix style, your life doesn’t work like that. So yes I totally agree with you.


Janice: [00:10:21] So if people wanted to find out more about what you do or follow along the way you work and they find you on the Internet?


Jacqueline: [00:10:29] Well they can find my Web site at or I’m also on Facebook. Jac Julien and LinkedIn.


Janice: [00:10:46] Ha. All right. The LinkedIn. Great. Thank you so much for doing this for me today. This has been wonderful I’ve spoken to so many inspiring and different and wonderful human beings today and admittedly I’m now tapped out but it has has been totally worth it.


Jacqueline: [00:11:06] I’m super excited to see all of you that you worked so hard pushed through it today.


Janice: [00:11:14] Because you know I’m I’m going to be lazy tomorrow. Yes. Thank you so much. And to everyone else. Have a Happy International Women’s Day. And this has been your introvert inspiration.


Andrea Zimmerl, The Speaking Without Fear Coach For Introverts

I was very lucky to get Andrea just before she went to bed!

Andrea Zimmerl, The Speaking Without Fear Coach For Introverts

Facebook Group:



Janice: [00:00:00] Hello I am Janice once again I am the career introvert and today for International Women’s Day I am doing some introvert inspiration. So I am here with Andrea and am going to let her introduce herself and tell us a little bit about her.


Andrea: [00:00:16] Yes! Thank you very much Janice is it so nice for having me you thank you very much. I am Andrea from Vienna the tiny town in Austria in the middle of Europe and actually we have winter here. We have about minus 50 degrees right now. It’s Freezing freeking cold right now but it’s getting better soon. Yes I am a life coach. Have been coaching women for over 20 years and women in all kinds of jobs women want to get more confident with speaking. To find their life purpose to find a job, help them apply for jobs in really in many different areas of work with them and now I think two years ago I took my business and went online because. I recall the last year the last five years in Vienna I was employed and I lost my job. And so I thought okay maybe you know the saying you can either live for another person’s dream or for your own. I was 45 a few years ago and I decide okay it’s time to go for my own dream. Just do it. And yes here I am a first successful month with coaching sessions already happened. Yeah. Yeah that’s what I’m doing. Grizzly Bear and I live with my family and have a cat and she might or maybe turn up because it is evening and cuddling time. That’s how you work from home with a cat or maybe with a kid they show just up!


Janice: [00:02:07] They are like Oh she is doing something important. OK let’s have the first question that I ask everyone is what are you doing for International Women’s Day?


Andrea: [00:02:23] You’re well a really good question because in Austria it is not such a big day. I heard about it a few hours ago in Facebook groups mainly from Australia we’re talking about it and how they go to conferences and celebrate and to have a drink with their friends and such thing and as a oh why don’t I have that. I mean we we get some from magazines some coupons for maybe 20 percent off of some shops and then on that special day you get things cheaper. And I was really looking forward to. what other people might present on Woman’s Day and so here we are So. I guess that I can’t really contribute to this question I have no experienced but it’s really exciting yes because people like you do something really helpful and help others to grow and to shine. I think it is for introverts. Yes I mean I didn’t say it at the beginning but I’m an introvert and I’m also a bit of an extrovert so I am not really shy when you ask me for an interview I just hop on into it. I like such things as that I definitely it when people are not that extroverted, and say oh I don’t want this. And I think to see how other people can accomplish things and seeing and how they get there. Yes what happened before and how they dealt with all the drama and challenges. I think what you are doing is really great for women’s day.


Janice: [00:03:59] So ladies next time you want to go shopping for International Women’s Day go to Austria. Go visit Andrea in Vienna. And it’s cheap that’s one of the things that I’d love to talk about is you said that you you find yourself some more on the introvert scale but the sort of maybe in the middle. How do you find your balance of thoughts with your energy as far as your introversion and running your business is concerned.


Andrea: [00:04:27] Yes that’s really good a question of how much time do you have?


Andrea: [00:04:34] No I mean before the first years from 20 to 40 I was living a really extroverted life because I think I didn’t know it. I felt exhausted and I got ill a lot. But I worked hard and met a lot of people I danced a lot in the night. I was at events and all this stuff. It’s likely happening then I got more tired and fatigued and I needed more time for myself. I was no longer interested in doing all that stuff. Meet new friends at the disco . It wasn’t interesting any more had I just wondered and I started reading books and where Facebook groups are on Instagram, I would see people saying oh I am an introvert or maybe I am highly sensitive and all these words kind of spoke to me. I googled for books and read pages but in words and highly sensitive people and yes found out. I’m one of those people and I have to deal with the situation I am Honestly I haven’t found my balance. I still struggle to get enough rest and to find my quiet time and my calm time. Because sometimes it is really difficult. For example in the last seven weeks I was on an English course it was 25 hours a week and that’s a lot for me honestly. So I spent the afternoon finding my balance having coffee, cat, and a book and that didn’t work honestly. That’s how it goes at the moment. I really hope that it gets better so that within the next years because this year my word for it is year is BALANCE. the first two and a half months there was everything was off balance was interesting yes. But it is still word of the year going for it to find my balance. I will do everything for it. Because I love the things I do in my work and also with my friends and hobbies I have and have to find a way to manage it in an introverted and quiet way that other people often don’t understand and it all got out more often you need to do is you need to do that and I think Oh no. where is my blanket. Yes I also have to deal with other people and their opinions. The nice thing is the online community is really nice and meet a lot of nice introverts there and it’s fun to find like minded people and that’s the most positive thing about working online because I say the nice people are often not your neighbors. Thre is sometimes ocean between them. Yeah. Yes yes yeah. Well I was just trying to find my balance. Am I being honest I am working on it. Maybe it’s work in progress forever I don’t know, but it gets better. It will get better.


Janice: [00:07:56] I’m glad that you said that you’re still trying to find your balance because I think most people think that it’s a one size fits all or once you get it you have nailed it. And yes stuff happens.


Andrea: [00:08:11] It’s different for introverts and extroverts to find balance. Yes that’s it is just more accepted to find an extroverted balance.


Janice: [00:08:20] Also the people around you that you have to deal with like your family or your co-workers or whatever it has to be they they affect how you deal and your balance how you communicate all your balance needs or how you disappear to the bathroom with headphones for 10 minutes or whatever it is they can make it all work.


Janice: [00:08:42] so question for you. What motivates you?


Andrea: [00:08:48] Basically it’s all round this business it’s the freedom lifestyle the only the I love my freedom. I want to go for my dream and I really like to work when I want wherever I want and what I want to do.


Andrea: [00:09:03] It’s also like a good fit ] for my introverted side. Yeah. Because I can take naps, I can take time off I really can plan when do I want to work and it feeds my energy level. Now it’s in the evening it’s great. if it is 8am in the morning then you don’t want to speak with me.


Janice: [00:09:25] I timed it well.


Andrea: [00:09:26] Perfect timing and that is one of my WHY’s I mean yes although want to help other introverts. Just to show up and get their voice heard. I think introverts we have so much to say. And when you are usually in conversations with other people a few extroverts your voice is not heard. Yes because the others are so loud they don’t listen. And I think we have to find ways to make this happen because we are the ones who spend a lot of time thinking about things deeply. A long time to figure it out..


Janice: [00:10:11] That is very true. So thank you for all of this. This has been the first part and everything was so inspiring to me there what you’ve done and how you’re doing it. Can you tell our listeners viewers whatever word we’re going to use where they can find you on the internet or elsewhere.


Andrea: [00:10:31] You’ll find me on the internet I have a website.


[00:10:33] It’s but I think it’s easier to read and that down and out although I have a Facebook group. It’s called Introverts business launch. You find an online introverts business launch a new Facebook group where I want to inspire and help and encourage introverts to talk all things business in our way. To share business things and what we’re think and what we feel and to share photos and pictures because people would love that love. Many introverts love to travel or take pictures that is really an introvert hobby.


Janice: [00:11:14] Yes and pictures of other things not necessarily of us.


Andrea: [00:11:21] That is true I am not really a selfie fan.


Janice: [00:11:22] See I have this episode on my podcast. what’s up with the selfie selfie Saturday selfie Sunday. I never nope! Not happening.


Janice: [00:11:30] Great thank you so much. I hope you enjoy your International Women’s Day and I hope this has been useful and helpful for anyone who is listening. Thank you so much.


Andrea: [00:11:45] Thank you very much Janice for having me it was lovely to talk to you. I really enjoyed it.


Thea Orozco – Introvertology

I was listening back to this video and realized how much I laughed during this! It was great to speak with Thea and find out about cool books.


Website and everywhere online: Introvertology


Janice: [00:00:01] Hello once again this is Janice the Career Introvert. And today for International Women’s Day I have Thea and you know I got I have forgotten your last name. Which is terrible. And she’s going introduce herself and tell you a little bit more about what she does.


Thea: [00:00:22] It’s totally ok Janice . I can’t remember your last name either.


Janice: [00:00:26] Awesome!


Thea: [00:00:32] Yes my name is Thea Orozco. I have a brand called Introvertology. Basically I help introverts who are struggling in their business. Maybe they’re overthinking maybe they have trouble so promotion basically work on their mindset. What’s going on behind the scenes to make them successful.


Janice: [00:00:52] And where are you located.


Thea: [00:00:54] I’m in Los Angeles California.


Janice: [00:00:58] Right, so the first question that I ask everybody on this day is what are you going to be doing for International Women’s Day?


Thea: [00:01:05] So in the past I’ve read books by women. I haven’t made any plans this year but hopefully I’ll do the same.


Janice: [00:01:15] Do you have any recommendations? For books. Not what to do?


Thea: [00:01:20] Yeah. Erm I don’t.


Janice: [00:01:25] Well okay. Has this think about it and then we can add it later as links or you can tell me now because I think you have thought of something.


Thea: [00:01:32] Yeah well any Ursula Le Guin books. I’ve enjoyed her stuff so I’m mainly into science fiction so yeah those are great. There’s not a whole lot of women science fiction authors erm so it’s I’m trying to remember off the top of my head who I read.


Janice: [00:02:01] There’s a series of fi books right now that I think it’s called Binti. Neil Gaiman is very like backing this one.


Thea: [00:02:10] Oh yeah.


Janice: [00:02:11] So by the look on your eyes you were interested so I will send you that information. The reason I ask is because I just spoke to someone in Vienna and she was like we don’t really celebrate it here but they do have like discounts and coupons for women say everything’s 20 percent off. So if your bored next year and want to go shopping and Vienna is the place to do it.


Janice: [00:02:38] All right. So the next thing I’d love to talk about because this is all about inspiring introverts is how do you manage your balance or your battery or whatever you want to use your energy as an introvert who runs their own brand and business?


Thea: [00:02:54] My whole thing is saying no and being ok with saying no. So no I do like to say yes to a lot of things like this. Of course.


Thea: [00:03:05] Yeah but also be careful to say no like you know Christmas season and it’s obviously a very stressful. I don’t actually go to my parents Christmas party. They’ve been holding it for like 20 years. I haven’t been going to it for the past 10 years.


Thea: [00:03:23] It’s just being ok saying no and people understanding you saying no. It’s a lot of just you know self confidence and big sure that you understand what’s best for you. And being ok with people not understanding that.


Janice: [00:03:45] You have a plan. You got that figured out you like NO a lot of us are not. I’m not there yet.


Thea: [00:03:54] It takes practice.


Janice: [00:03:58] So as far. As maybe in your past or maybe right now what’s been maybe something that you’ve seen as an issue as an introvert or introvert leaning and how you either overcome it failed still working whatever that might whatever stage you might be in that process.


Thea: [00:04:15] Yeah. Well I think I’m still overcoming everything. Let’s see, over thinking it’s you with me. I’m trying to get better at that. I think personally the way I’m trying to get over overthinking is realizing that you know it’s okay to not be perfect for things not to be perfect. If I sound weird, It’s because I have the flu. So. I sound really weird in my head. I have no idea how I sound right now.


Janice: [00:04:52] The thing is people don’t know how you’re supposed to sound right now.


Thea: [00:04:57] Yeah. Oh yes. Actually it isn’t like the thing about perfectionism actually isn’t right. Like people don’t know what perfection means to me. So like I could say something imperfectly it’s like amazing to them. Right. So that’s like part of the transition.


Thea: [00:05:17] I’m trying to make is be ok with doing things imperfectly because if you try and do things perfectly you’ll never get done because I can always always be like tweaking implementing all of that stuff like Well I’d post i don’t even know how many blog post that there have written. Because keep like I kept editing them so you just get embargo’s out there is really something I’m working.


Janice: [00:05:45] On and I know you’ve got a little series gang right now which is like 7 tips they got from a recent conference. You survived a conference. I am proud of you on our behalf. We didn’t go but we are going to learn from it. What motivates you?


Thea: [00:06:07] So you know the simple answer like helping people. But it’s actually it’s really true like helping people see somebody like improve their lives. The fact that I can actually help people improve their life is just mind blowing to me it’s still like wow. But in terms of like the non cliche answer I love going for treats. I don’t know how this works where you are but Bobo which is like tapioca balls. That’s my favorite treat.


Janice: [00:06:47] I see you game the system you know like if I do this and then I get to go and have a tea.


Thea: [00:06:52] Partially, partially. Sometimes they just go have a tea.


Janice: [00:07:04] As this is to inspire introverts in the world on International Women’s Day. Is there any thing that we haven’t covered that you would like people to know if they’re struggling to maybe think about making a career move, getting a promotion, going out and creating a brand.


Thea: [00:07:21] So many things. OK. I will choose one. Which is a lot of the time when we are thinking about career moves or building a business. We often think that like Who are we to do this. So like you know we might love something but we’re like everybody else knows all about that. So who are we to like speak up about this. So that’s you know like your voice has a place in this world so don’t hold it back just because you think other people are interested because they really are.


Janice: [00:07:57] It’s true and I’ve had that recently where people have called me an expert in something and I am like that no I don’t like that word lets use the word advocate. But it’s mainly because I’m scared of the word expert.


Janice: [00:08:12] So thank you it’s been. I’ve learnt things and watching people I do know her I actually met her in person but I’ve learned things today. And where can people find you on the internet if they want to find out more, or maybe when some of those blog posts that you can’t get out?


Thea: [00:08:30] I am at Basically anywhere.


Janice: [00:08:41] yeah brand it’s everywhere. Same thing very consistent. Thank you so much today for this. I am glad I got to talk with you again because it’s been a little while.


Janice: [00:08:55] And everybody I hope this has been inspiring to you because it has been inspiring to me.


Thea: [00:09:01] Thank you.

Laurel Farrer

I had so much fun talking with Laurel. She has such energy and sparkle. Hopefully one day we will meet in real life.

Website: Laurel Farrer



Janice: [00:00:01] Hello it’s me again Janice the Career Introvert for Introvert inspiration for International Women’s Day.


Janice: [00:00:06] I am here with Laurel and she is going to tell us some wonderful things and I know she’s kinda awesome. So would you like to introduce yourself?


Laurel: [00:00:14] I would love to introduce myself and all of my awesomeness apparently. Thank you that’s very nice.


Laurel: [00:00:21] Yes my name is Laurel Farrer. I am a remote work advocate which wasn’t really a job title until recently but I’m trying it out I’m trying to be the first one and we’ll see how that goes. So I’m currently located in rural Connecticut in the United States. You’ll see I live in a log cabin in the middle of the woods. My husband and I live and breathe remote work. We live in the middle of nowhere and have thriving careers for it.


Laurel: [00:00:51] So that’s who I am .


Janice: [00:01:01] So. What, i’ve asked everyone is what are you doing for International Women’s Day?


Laurel: [00:01:08] You know I’ll be completely honest and transparent.


Laurel: [00:01:11] I had no idea that it was a thing until yesterday.


Laurel: [00:01:14] But now there’s this big buzz about it so I’ll probably just kind of be following the buzz and learning about it and just feeling the pride of my gender. You know I I’ve been such an equalist for so long that I forget to be proud of who I am. I’m always like no blinders you know like men and women are equal. We’re good. We can do this. But.


Laurel: [00:01:39] So I’ve forgotten to just kind of let my guard down a little bit and be a proud feminist every once in a while and that’s probably what I’ll be doing one day a year is just rock’im who I am.


Janice: [00:01:50] That’s interesting. I have had a lot of different answers from all around the world.


Janice: [00:01:54] We’ve had some that don’t really celebrate it. We’ve had reading books today.


Janice: [00:02:03] We’ve had they give coupons discounts and apparently in Australia is a huge deal. So it’s very interesting with all of these interviews to find out how it is all around the world.


Laurel: [00:02:13] Yeah that’s really it’s it’s exciting and that’s part of the beauty of this virtual you know industries and virtual collaboration is that we get to share all of these differences between our cultures so much more easily and I love that.


Janice: [00:02:27] Right. So question one down. That’s the next thing as an introvert leaning person whichever way you want to describe that. How do you balance your needs your battery your balance of your introversion with what you do for you job. career, business, stuff?


Laurel: [00:02:48] All of that. That you know that’s a really good question and that took me a long time to learn how to do. I think that the trick that I’ve settled on at this point in my career is to find what I am good at and capitalize on that as much as possible. And usually that is by finding a backdoor to what everybody else is doing or what the societal norm of extroversion is doing. So this is what everybody else is doing. I don’t feel comfortable doing that. That doesn’t feel safe to me. How can I look at the same situation from different perspectives and find a backdoor that does feel safe to me and I can still get the same benefits as everybody else but I’m doing me. I’m I’m being true to myself and I’m doing it in a way that feels safe for me. So there’s a lot of different examples of that. But I think that one just recently is social media ironically. I hate social media. I feel super venerable in social media. I I it feels really competitive. Like I I just hate it. And I’ve stayed away from it for so long. But a few years ago I had a client that said no you have to be here. I need you to be here. And so I said OK look I can’t you know I can’t quit my job over social media. So how can I do this in a way that feels safe. That is still true to who I am as an introvert.


Laurel: [00:04:14] And so I I explored the situation and finally settled on a way that I felt good about. There’s one way is giving advice I love thought leadership I love idea sharing and so I said Yeah I’ll just I can post that you know from my account just give it to people. That’s where I feel safe. I feel totally good doing that and I’ll just do that. And I just you know give advice for free from my account and then I also use social media networking to focus on or to lead me to one on one conversations right. Like as introverts we hate those small talk. Cocktail party situations we hate that. So I think that’s what social media is to me it’s one giant nightmare cocktail party that I have to go to.


Laurel: [00:05:07] I hate it. So what I want to use those connections to get information about people and then trigger a one on one conversation that I feel comfortable with and safe with and make a meaningful relationship that way. So that’s kind of been the theme of my entire career is like whoa everybody else is doing that. I don’t feel safe doing that. But I think I can figure out a different way to do the same thing that feels better for me


Janice: [00:05:38] I’m all about that. I know you talked a little bit about how you find the balance but have you found something that’s been an issue that you’ve overcome.


Laurel: [00:06:09] Well an issue I think in terms. Of introverts is it’s kind of ironically and fortuitously timed is kind of the gender balance like it’s men versus women. And so you’re either a feminist or you’re not. I’m like No no no. I like I said I’m going to equalist and that’s kind of how I am in introversion as well. It’s not introverts versus extroverts and it’s you know you throw him into the ring and whoever can win. I think we need each other. I think we need to capitalize on each other and and collaborate as a team and communicate. Like how can we use the strengths of extroverts to accomplish our goals and how can we use the strengths of introverts to accomplish our goals. So I think a really great example of that is one that I mentioned earlier is cocktail parties. Those are my nightmare like my nightmare come true are cocktail party. I stress about them more months ahead. Every time I go to conference I think I can talk at people all day long. That’s what I do I’m a public speaker right like I can talk at a group of people for days. I can’t talk to one person for my life.


Laurel: [00:07:32] So cocktail parties just put me into cold sweats. So I think a great strategy in that circumstance is to bring an extrovert with me that we can capitalize on each other. And it’s not it’s not a scape goat. I’m not you know bowing down to the power of an extrovert. I’m saying OK these are the people that I want to meet. You use those. Yeah you use your abilities to get your foot in the door.


Laurel: [00:08:02] And then all use my abilities to make a more concrete meaningful memorable relationship. And we tag team that together. So that’s been something that I really I really enjoy about my personality type is the unique contributions that I have. You know I think that’s a big misconception of introversion is that it’s a weakness right. And I feel like I’ve come through that in my own life that I’m like oh I can’t do what they’re doing. I see that person working the room at the cocktail party. I can’t do that. I must be broken. No no no no no no no no no that’s not that’s not it. They have strengths that I don’t have and I have strengths that they don’t have.


Laurel: [00:08:50] So what strengths do I have that I can bring to the table that I can contribute. It’s not a weakness it’s not a limitation it’s just a difference. And when I let my environment control me that’s when I feel broken as an introvert. But when I am in control of my environment that’s when I am thrive and I’m in power.


Janice: [00:09:15] yeah that makes a lot of sense. I’m very much like you I can speak to you. Put me in a speaking event and in fact that’s my way of networking because people have a reason to come and talk to me


Janice: [00:09:32] So what motivates you what gets you up in the morning what makes sure spring and you step


Laurel: [00:09:40] My mission man I hope I love it Like I said it’s my mission it’s remote work so that’s you know my industry. That’s what I do personally. And I found my why you know I my my personal you know testimony if you will of remote work is is based on personal experience in the nice sea the personal experiences of other people and that you know my introverted personality that deep connection with people that I feel connected to those people and I feel this power of this tool that I have to offer which is again the ability to control their environment and to work from a place that feels safe to them. And so that’s the gift that I want to give to the world. I want every worker to be able to control their environment and work in a place that feels safe whether that I mean that might be in an office right like surrounded by people but I’ve got you know my good headphones on and I’m just doing my creative thing and I’m just buzzing off the energy of the people around me or I’m totally isolated in a log cabin in Connecticut or whatever like I want people to be able to choose and to feel empowered about where and how they work.


Janice: [00:11:00] I agree with you on that because I thing where I was saying that I missed cubicles. I always had the corner cubicle with my back to everyone I would be there but I could still get work done.


Laurel: [00:11:11] You have the the accountability of people around you and you’ve got like cues of people around you like oh everybody is leaving. Oh that’s right. They’re going to that meeting that I almost forgot about. Like it’s really helpful to be in an office sometimes. So again I’m all about balance I’m not about like remote work versus office. I’m about choice. I want people to be able to choose and design that safe space for them whatever that looks like.


Janice: [00:11:41] Right. Well thank you. This has been inspiring insightful and I’m going to get dictionaries and tell everyone where they can find you. They want to find more information to follow along with you will find out more about remote working


Laurel: [00:11:57] Definitely my website my personal website is the best way to get a hold of me. I work as a freelancer I’m an operations consultant for a lot of distributed companies so that it’s hard to find me in any one place because I’m always doing something. So the one constant is my personal Web site that’s


Janice: [00:12:51] Thank you so much today for giving me your time and your blizzard snowstorm.


Laurel: [00:12:58] It was great speaking Janice finding out a little bit more about you and I’m going to talk to you more because. Enjoy your International Women’s Day.

Melissa Packham – A Brand is Not a Logo

I was so lucky to be able to interview Melissa actually on International Women’s Day, as I am taking the day off, but she is quite a few hours ahead of me.

Find Melissa in the following places

Website: A Brand Is Not A Logo

Instagram: abrandisnotalogo


Janice: [00:00:02] Hi it’s Janice The Career Introvert for Introvert Inspiration for International Women’s Day. I’m here with Melissa and Melissa you going to tell us all about yourself.

Melissa: [00:00:11] Hi. Thanks Janice thanks for having me. I’m Melissa Packham. I am based in Brisbane Australia where it’s currently ten to ten in the morning. I have just come back from an international women’s day event so perfect timing to talk about this stuff.

Melissa: [00:00:30] I’m a brand strategist and my my brand is called A Brand is Not a Logo because I do all the stuff that comes before the design part.

Melissa: [00:00:39] So that’s my background, my corporate background and that’s what I do now independently

Janice: [00:00:45] And I find this interesting because everyone does the logo thing first and then just the back stuff and doesn’t realise just how ….anyway.

Janice: [00:00:53] Yes. So I guess I mean I’ve asked everyone you’ve kind of given it away what did you do for International Women’s Day. You are actually in International Women’s Day right now. The rest of us it is like tomorrow we are going to.

Melissa: [00:01:05] its current.

Melissa: [00:01:06] That’s right.

Melissa: [00:01:07] Yes so I got up at ridiculous o’clock this morning and went, took myself off to a breakfast networking event so it started at 7:00 a.m. and they were it was a the league of extraordinary women who do quite a lot of events here their Australian based must follow check them out. They held this event with a speaker panel of four incredible business women who were telling us their stories about how they got started and partnerships and collaborations that they’ve encountered through their business world.

Melissa: [00:01:41] How they started exporting their products and how they how they kind of grew their businesses to where they are today. So it was super inspiring you know a great range of women there talking about their experiences.

Janice: [00:01:59] This is a league of inspirational women. So my next question. I’m kind of like jealous as you can tell. The next question is how do you balance your battery balance and introversion.

Janice: [00:02:15] Whatever word you want to use with your business?

Melissa: [00:02:19] Yeah it is. It’s one of those cases I mean I’m the marketer that is really shy about marketing herself so it is an interesting balance to strike but basically I’m just being myself.

Melissa: [00:02:32] I’ve noticed that when I’m really authentic with people and connect with people on a human level it just sort of comes naturally to me and it endears me to people and the people that I kind of want to work with. So you know the people that are not into that and are kind of into the more you know Bromady kind of vibe. They you know they don’t don’t vibe with me and that’s totally cool. So I find that just being myself really helps in my communication. I try and be as authentic and me as possible so my e-mail sequence isn’t a perfectly structured email funnel. It is me writing an e-mail as if I were writing to a friend. That really helps. And then in terms of like when I need my my downtime so I do work in a coworking space which is good for networking and meeting with people and having people around you. But then I do need to work from home sometimes just. To just quiet time and you know be able to get around in my pajamas and have lots of tea and that kind of thing just makes me feel good. So I think it’s just about finding a balance that works. There’s no formula. I notice some weeks I’ll stay at home all week and that’s totally okay. Some weeks I’m like networking and meeting new people and being crazy and then have the people hangover afterwards as a result.

Melissa: [00:04:00] So yeah it’s just about finding that balance and kind of recognising when you need to recharge things so yeah all of that helps me in my business.

Janice: [00:04:10] So that’s interesting because everyone that I’ve spoken to has a different way of managing the balance and it’s nice to hear that we’re not all the same and yes we might all introverts or be leaning on the edge of that spectrum but we all have a different way. It’s all individual and that’s how it should be. I guess next question is What misconception and you know I’ve got a thing for misconceptions. Or heard or that you found because of introversion has stopped you in your career or at a previous job and how you work through it or not and where you are now.

Melissa: [00:04:44] That’s a fantastic question because it’s something I think about quite a lot actually.

Melissa: [00:04:48] So I used to wear my introversion as a little bit of a badge of honor I think it’s almost like an excuse or a cloak to excuse myself from having to you know be crazily out there and you know promote myself and that was something that was a big big deal in corporate life so I was in a big multinational company in the marketing department and of course there’s an expectation that you’re a certain type of person when you’re doing that kind of role. And I wasn’t I wasn’t that type of person but I I did well when I was myself and authentic with people and I did better in one on one relationships than I did in big sort of group settings. But I would say the barrier that has always been prevalent in my career and even today is self-doubt and a lack of confidence and I think that that’s ever important when it comes to self promotion because you have to you have to promote yourself you have to sell yourself because no one else is actually going to do that for you unless you find incredible mentors or someone who’s like right there with you who takes you under their wing and helps you along that journey. I’ve had it at various stages in my career and certainly now I’ve deliberately connected with women outside of what I do just around who helped me do that and kind of call me out on my own bullshit in a way you know sometimes you kind of get used to that.

Melissa: [00:06:24] You get stuck in your own little world and you know sometimes you start to feel a little bit sorry for yourself but actually the answer is right there and frankly you already know the answer you just kind of have to do it. So there is a little bit of pushing through. I am still fighting this challenge and a lot of it comes through in that self promotion so I do find that whole idea of sales and selling myself a little bit icky. But there is an authentic way to do it and it’s just exactly that. Being yourself and not letting you know expectations of others rule what you do or expectations of the external world or what you’ve done in the past doesn’t necessarily have to be true for the future.

Janice: [00:07:06] Yes so many things. There’s a lot of things that go through my head I’m like yeah and some people who call me in a word that I don’t like I’m going for advocate rather than the other word. Yeah. Yeah. So you.

Janice: [00:07:25] So what get you up in the morning what motivates you what. I mean you got up at x o’clock this morning you know

Melissa: [00:07:36] You know like cause a lot if there’s if there’s morning events like that.

Melissa: [00:07:40] I’m the first to kind of go do I really need to go.

Janice: [00:07:45] I know I’ve committed but I’m not feeling it. But this morning even though I’d had a terrible sleep last night I think I know my brain is just buzzing with stuff all over the world like all the things all the problems in my head but I got up anyway and I made myself go and it was the best thing ever because I knew that I knew the speakers were going to be fantastic and they were I knew that some women that I was going to meet there were going to be great and they were.

Melissa: [00:08:13] So it was it was just this was my one way to celebrate International Women’s Day so I deliberately booked that event for that reason. So I think that was my motivation today. Other days think you know when there’s not something special on it it’s got to be the work that I’m doing. So I work on a range of different projects that across all sorts of different businesses which is what really excites me is that I get to use my brain in different ways. It’s not just about selling a supermarket product which is you know my career history and it’s so much more than that. So problem solving for different businesses gets me up in the morning and you know sometimes keeps me up at night which is what was happening last night.

Melissa: [00:09:02] Good and bad

Janice: [00:09:04] What about that is we always get told I say we..simply people who in their businesses always get told that you need to niche down and only deal with one type of person and only do this and that. Yeah it’s nice and it’s great to do. There are different ways of doing things.

Melissa: [00:09:27] Yeah it totally and niching can mean so many different things too it can mean a mindset of the person it doesn’t have to be a specific you know in my case a specific business type or an exact model that I replicate every time I do like the challenge of variation so that that works for me.

Melissa: [00:09:49] But everyone that I work with has the same kind of mindset you know they’re solving a problem that’s good for the world by using their skills for good and not evil and you know they want to contribute real value and this authenticity behind what they’re doing. So I don’t work with other brands that don’t align with my own personal values in that respect and so I guess that’s kind of my niche for other businesses it works perfectly to get super specific about niche. But yeah it just varies I think.

Janice: [00:10:18] Yes niche is a niche word that yes is very different. So this question surprise question that you didn’t know it was coming.

Janice: [00:10:34] Is because this is for people to be inspired and it’s about changing careers going on your own, you’re traveling by yourself whatever it might be. What is one thing that you’d like people to know introverts or introvert leaning people about whatever it might be.

Janice: [00:10:50] What’s the Golden Nugget thing you want to tell people

Melissa: [00:10:53] You know what the most powerful thing I ever did was was at a leadership course while I was still in corporate they I was on a leadership path and I was on this special program and the exercise was to write down our values the very first value I wrote down was freedom and of course being an introvert in an office in a corporate environment in a very sort of high energy world. Freedom is not a word that you associate with that environment. So having written that down and seen it in my face was the most powerful thing I did because from there I decided to make my life the way I wanted it to be and I realised it needed to make some changes and so that’s exactly what I did. I set myself on the path to quit my corporate job, pack up our lives my husband and I were together in this packed up our lives in Sydney and then travelled around the world for about a year just just kind of discovering new things and being open to new experiences and that was life changing for me. Seriously life changing. It’s where I got the idea for my current business that’s where I saw a need for what I do. I met incredible people including your beautiful self because you know that’s how we you know I don’t nomad thing around the world and you know I think I think it’s just write down your values and design your life because you only have one and you never know.

Melissa: [00:12:30] Like I know it’s super you know it is that like me you don’t know when what’s going to change or what’s going to end and if you’ve got an idea there is no reason why you can’t pursue it even if it’s a small step towards that every single day but just make it happen. I think there’s nothing to lose.

Janice: [00:12:48] I feel good about that because today these past 12 hours have somehow embodied this for me.

Melissa: [00:12:58] I think you should read a blog or maybe even a book about it.

Melissa: [00:13:01] It seems like one of those stories like it just shows you like ask for help and you can get it and you know and I think that’s the same of anyone who has an idea that isn’t quite sure where to start. There is always help to be found and people want to help you. That’s the other thing they want to help you. They want you to succeed.

Janice: [00:13:19] Confused about that because I am known as a none people liker.

Melissa: [00:13:27] Yeah I’m a card carrying people hater as well.

Janice: [00:13:31] Why would they want to do something

Melissa: [00:13:34] So it is super nice when people surprise you I think in that way.

Janice: [00:13:38] Restores my faith in humanity. So where can people find you on the Internet and people rave about her Instagram FYI.

Melissa: [00:13:51] Yeah I have a lot of fun on my Instagram so you can check that out at a brand is not a logo. So that’s that’s the handle. It’s it’s wordy and I would never give advice to people to make their brand names that long but it works for me. So at A Brand is not a Logo and my website is a brand is not a logo dot com. You can find me there too.

Janice: [00:14:14] Right well thank you very much. This has been inspirational from an introvert on International Women’s Day.